Author Topic: Contract Options and Incentives (Read 6717 times)

Huckleberry · « **on:** April 23, 2015, 11:16:30 AM »

Many online leagues eliminate or severely limit the use of options and bonuses in player contract offers. I have the following thoughts:

Contract options seem like they may work fine as long as the option years follow the existing contract rules (at least as much as the preceding year but no more than 10% higher).

However incentives may be an issue because of the custom financials and the fact that I would then have to figure out when those incentives are paid in order to accurately calculate player expenses.

So that would be my proposed amendment. Options are okay as long as the salary meets the existing rules but incentives are disallowed primarily as a league logistics issue. Any thoughts from the league?

sumhzrd · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2015, 01:01:14 PM »

I have no issue with your proposal.

captaincoop17 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2015, 01:32:48 PM »

Team options should require a 25% buyout from the average annual salary of the contract. Player options don't need a buyout.

Incentives can't exceed more then 10% of the average annual salary of the contract.

Huckleberry · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2015, 01:53:51 PM »

Quote from: captaincoop17 on April 23, 2015, 01:32:48 PM

Team options should require a 25% buyout from the average annual salary of the contract. Player options don't need a buyout.

Incentives can't exceed more then 10% of the average annual salary of the contract.

I like both of these proposals. I totally forgot about requiring a buyout. I think we can work with the incentives and options, I will just have to figure out when to sim to after the playoffs are complete. I need to sim to a point where all incentives, options, and buyouts are complete before I enter the teams' budgets for the following year. I assume that can be done like this:

Sim to end of playoffs and stop the day after the playoffs end.
Hold the league vote on awards via OOTP OU the next day. Doesn't matter how many owners vote, that will be it. This should prompt all incentives to be paid once complete.
Sim until the first day of the offseason. I'm not sure when this is, how is it calculated? That will be the day that option decisions must be made by owners. If they don't make them then the game will make the decisions for them.
Sim until free agents file. Once I have simmed here then the player expenses for all teams should be finalized for the just completed season.

Is this correct?

captaincoop17 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2015, 02:15:07 PM »

Quote from: Huckleberry on April 23, 2015, 01:53:51 PM

Quote from: captaincoop17 on April 23, 2015, 01:32:48 PM
Team options should require a 25% buyout from the average annual salary of the contract. Player options don't need a buyout.

Incentives can't exceed more then 10% of the average annual salary of the contract.

I like both of these proposals. I totally forgot about requiring a buyout. I think we can work with the incentives and options, I will just have to figure out when to sim to after the playoffs are complete. I need to sim to a point where all incentives, options, and buyouts are complete before I enter the teams' budgets for the following year. I assume that can be done like this:

Sim to end of playoffs and stop the day after the playoffs end.
Hold the league vote on awards via OOTP OU the next day. Doesn't matter how many owners vote, that will be it. This should prompt all incentives to be paid once complete.
Sim until the first day of the offseason. I'm not sure when this is, how is it calculated? That will be the day that option decisions must be made by owners. If they don't make them then the game will make the decisions for them.
Sim until free agents file. Once I have simmed here then the player expenses for all teams should be finalized for the just completed season.

Is this correct?

1. Good
2. Good
3. Good, First day of offseason is the day after the World Series ends.
4. Do we have arbitration? If so, break that into two extra sims... Sim up until a week before the arbitration hearings, then sim a day past the arbitration hearings the next sim. After that, you can sim to free agency.

1st Sim- Offseason Ends
2nd Sim- Sim Until One Week Before Arbitration Hearings
3rd Sim- Sim Until The Day After Arbitration Hearings
4th Sim- Sim to the Start of Free Agency

Huckleberry · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2015, 02:54:30 PM »

We don't have arbitration. Players are $200K their first five years then free agents.

maxprime · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2015, 05:55:58 PM »

im am curious as to what the problem is with front loading a contract? i get the no back loading as future gms could step into a real mess but am curious as to the issue with front loading

Paris_Rich · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:16:40 PM »

I like Captaincoop's solution to having team options. 25% buyout seems fair and balanced and forces the GM to make a financial commitment for the purposes of having the right to an option. Good approach to incentives as well. Great thinking.

I want to draw a firmer line to the end of the award voting. I believe it should be mandatory. I'm in two leagues where there is all star, end of year award, and hall of fame voting. It is a league expectation. I didn't like the mandatory requirement at first. I thought it was "extra work" that was unnecessary. I just completed my 5th season in the both league and I enjoy the voting process a lot. The leagues I'm referring to use Statslab instead of OOTP OU. It only takes about 10 minutes or less to vote using Statslab and I don't think the process would be much different with OOTP OU. The leagues are 16 and 20 teams fictional leagues. In my 5 seasons in both leagues there has not been a GM replacement. Remarkable!

I see the voting process as a positive league culture building activity. Of course, other culture building activities are very important like good communication, consistent and timely simming (one of the leagues is a 7 days a week sim league), clear rules and expectations are a few that come to mind. Voting for awards is not much to ask or expect.

Just contributing my 2 cents!

Rich

CLK · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:29:53 PM »

I like the idea of making the voting mandatory. I'm just a noobie but I think it ensures everyone is truly involved in the league aside from just importing/exporting and keeping it fun.

Huckleberry · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:42:09 PM »

We will consider making it mandatory, but I'm not ready to do that quite yet. I want to make sure people don't get super penalized for being out of town at the wrong time, etc. and once the offseason rolls around I know my priority is going to be getting through things quickly.

As for the issue of frontloading contracts I think it's just a matter of tricking the AI's contract choice logic and making sure everyone is on the same terms. I suppose it's true that backloading could damage a future GM if the current guy bails while that's not an issue with frontloading. The leagues I've seen with this usually have it because they don't like the OOTP AI contract choices if some teams are frontloading.

So I am open to discussion on the frontloading issue. I would genuinely like to see it have a maximum percentage decrease just like the backloading does, though.

Huckleberry · « **Reply #10 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:45:54 PM »

I will put this here since we're discussing player contract rules, but I have put up a new player contracts compliance check page. It will check contracts and extensions for compliance with league rules.

As you can see there are quite a few violations because of the contracts OOTP gave. Those will not be changed based on the violations, we will just have to keep track of the player and make sure the only contract item in their history is being drafted (which means that the game generated the contract).

Obviously once we're into the 5th season and beyond the goal is for that page to be empty at all times.

ludosc · « **Reply #11 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:50:56 PM »

Quote from: Huckleberry on April 23, 2015, 06:45:54 PM

I will put this here since we're discussing player contract rules, but I have put up a new player contracts compliance check page. It will check contracts and extensions for compliance with league rules.

As you can see there are quite a few violations because of the contracts OOTP gave. Those will not be changed based on the violations, we will just have to keep track of the player and make sure the only contract item in their history is being drafted (which means that the game generated the contract).

Obviously once we're into the 5th season and beyond the goal is for that page to be empty at all times.

I know it says that Mehdi Khalfan's contract is illegal for annual increase, but I don't see a problem with it really.

His contract is for 4 years
year 1: $4.24M
year 2: $4.84M
year 3: $5.60M
year 4: $6.10M

those aren't terrible increases are they?

Huckleberry · « **Reply #12 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:55:03 PM »

No, current rule is maximum 10% annual increase. I went back and forth between that and 20%. That is also definitely up for discussion. I would appreciate everyone's thoughts on that.

ludosc · « **Reply #13 on:** April 23, 2015, 06:59:43 PM »

I would say go to 20% but that's just me. Offers a bit more flexibility in my opinion.

captaincoop17 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 23, 2015, 07:22:40 PM »

Quote from: Huckleberry on April 23, 2015, 06:55:03 PM

No, current rule is maximum 10% annual increase. I went back and forth between that and 20%. That is also definitely up for discussion. I would appreciate everyone's thoughts on that.

How about this instead, it's much easier to follow/calculate:

The lowest annual salary amount offered must be within 50% of the largest annual salary amount offered.

Therefore an offer of 3 years, the first being $3M, the second being $6M and the third being $9M would be invalid, since $3M is less than half of $9M. If this General Manager wanted to offer a highest annual salary of $9M, the lowest amount offered would have to be at least $4.5M.

Another example would be an offer of 5 years, where the first season is $12M and the remaing 4 seasons are $6M. This offer would be allowed, since no annual salary is less than half of the highest value.

Huckleberry · « **Reply #15 on:** April 23, 2015, 07:26:34 PM »

Actually in my script it's a very straight forward calculation so it's not too much of an issue. And I can't speak for anyone else but I really don't like that $12M, $6M, $6M example contract.

Huckleberry · « **Reply #16 on:** April 26, 2015, 11:31:05 AM »

The annual increase percentage change and required option buyout of at least 25% are now up for a vote. Those are the two that I see the most support for on this thread. That leaves two more things to discuss and see if there is sufficient support, imo:

Allowing annual salary decreases (frontloading a contract) with either the current 10% rule or having a 20% rule. To keep things clear and simple I would implement this rule with the same percentage as the increases, depending on whether that amendment passes or not.
Capping incentives in a contract at 10% of the average annual value of the contract. To keep this one simpler I would also recommend that the rule be capping it at 10% of the minimum annual salary in the contract.

Does anyone second putting those two up for a vote?

captaincoop17 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 26, 2015, 01:48:38 PM »

Agreed

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Author Topic: Contract Options and Incentives (Read 6717 times)

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